Phoebe Green
Words by Hollie Sackett, Photographs by Willow Shields
It’s early march and the first signs of spring appear in Richmond. There’s a lightness among everyone as the dreariness of the colder months are finally behind us as my companion for the day Willow Shields (photographer/ editor-in-chief) and I walk through the paths, along the Thames, to a whimsical cafe in Richmond, overlooking the newly bloomed daffodils. In my attempt at a healthy detox lifestyle, instead of my ordinary caffeine heavy order (a large latte and a Diet Coke for later), I opted for the most aggressively orange smoothie I’d ever seen, with the zap of ginger waking me up more than any coffee could.
I was happy to make the journey to the furthest reaches of the city, Richmond, to meet Phoebe Green, an independent singer songwriter hailing from Manchester. Phoebe was someone I was particularly excited to speak to. Much like her name, she struck me as a particularly colourful individual. Listening to her music is like living in a coming-of-age movie, with 80s twinged, vibrant production and sincere lyricism. Since her debut album release in 2016 ‘2:00 am’, Phoebe’s music is everything good pop music should be - fun yet honest. It feels like your very own personal soundtrack. Most of all, the thing that drew me to her is how unapologetically herself she is, a theme that runs strong through her music, looks and overall persona.
As we perched on metallic chairs overlooking a park, awaiting Phoebe’s arrival there was a lot of dog-watching and imagining how lovely it would be being a yummy mummy with a house overlooking the river. Phoebe arrived, and I was struck by how effortlessly cool she is and how instantly comfortable I felt around her as we shared grievances over train travel. Before settling into our conversation Phoebe’s gaze settled on my smoothie, which was identical to the colour as her jumper and said “I’m getting one of them” as she let her love for all things orange be known. Phoebe, a self-professed ‘yapper’, chatted to us about all things Shirley Temple to cycling proficiency tests.
The first thing I was curious to know about Phoebe was her beginnings and where her love of music started. “So, my nan used to live with me, my mum, my dad and my two sisters and we would always watch old musicals. I would stand on the coffee table and perform whichever song struck a chord with me. I feel like that was the first time I thought, not only do I love performing and connecting with something but also seeing a reaction.” From personal experience, I too was a child that would force my family to watch me perform my latest obsessions and some of my earliest experiences with music was sitting in the back of my parents car and singing along to the music on the radio, as dramatic as hell. Already sensing that we were on the same wavelength, I asked if she did the same. “Even worse. If I was in the back of the car and someone would put the music on. I remember I had just gotten an iPod so as far as I was concerned my earphones were in, all that I could hear was that and I would be singing along to it. Whoever was driving had to turn the radio down so it didn’t sound absolutely atrocious, so I was just singing acapella in the back of the car and everyone was forced to listen,” displaying again an excellent awareness of herself she followed up with “I don’t know but this is so me - but sometimes I wouldn’t be able to get through a song because I would just start crying.” As we were speaking, it felt as though she is just the same 8 year old who had these big dreams - only now, adult Phoebe is living them. However, she told us that doesn’t stop her from still popping on YouTube Karaoke tracks when she’s home alone!
Show tunes seem quite different from the music she makes today, so do they still inspire her in any way? “I think what I love about it is that in a musical, the song is literally documenting the moment and the memory. It’s always so descriptive of a scene. I really love that because most of my songs are capturing a moment or a feeling.” I ask Phoebe more about the artists who she first felt inspired by and immediately she had the answer - Barbra Streisand, in particular, her in A Star Is Born but just as she began professing her love for Babz, she stopped herself. “No wait,” shocked at herself that she could have forgotten “Shirley Temple! Shirley Temple was (clap) my (clap) girl (clap).” It felt at this point I had really found a topic that Phoebe was dying to talk about, as if she had been waiting for this moment for a while. “She was a little toddler with curly hair. She looked like me - that could have been me! It should have been me! It was half jealousy, half pure admiration.” She explained how her love for Shirley was passed down from her nan who introduced her to the classics and some of her first experiences as a performer in demand “my family were obsessed with me doing an impersonation of her and we’d be on holiday or seeing relatives and they’d be like ‘Phoebe, do the impression!’” I did chance my luck to see if there was any way we’d ever see that performance, maybe an exclusive cover of ‘Polly-Wooly-Doodle’? “Not anymore though, those days are gone!” Or maybe this could awaken a new era, I suggested? She agreed to that idea through giggles “in my Shirley Temple era.”
I suppose her curls were reminiscent of her day one idol but I was intrigued as to how her look has developed as it feels like an authentic reflection of the music she makes. “I feel like I want my inside to match my outside and for everything I do to be one whole thing. And I just love orange and that’s been my vibe now for the last few years and colours are so important to me. I guess also maximalism but in a controlled way”. At this point in the interview, we had forgotten that we are in public and all get distracted by a man sounding as though he is about to get into a fight, we turn around only to realise it’s just a squirrel trying to nab his lunch. After the drama we reset and I asked her when she decided that she wanted to take the living room performances to the next level and decided that this is what she wanted to do for a living. “I knew since I reached consciousness that I needed to perform, I needed to sing,” with a real sense of urgency, you could tell that this was the only option for her. Although, it was a surprising band that made her realise that it was all possible “as soon as I found out the Jonas Brothers wrote their own music I was like ‘Oh my god - you can do that’ because I didn’t know that you could write as well”. Her humble beginnings started with her laptop webcam and singing “random shit”. It was clear from day one that the belief she had in herself was going to take her far, “One time I was so convinced that I was already a superstar that I minimised the screen and played it to my dad and said “who do you think this is?”.
As she got older, Phoebe decided to learn an instrument to accompany her singing, “I can’t get away with acapella forever, contrary to popular belief ” she admitted and with the help of her high school music department she learnt to play the guitar. When she got to university, she decided she was going to need back up “when I started recording my first album I was listening to loads of indie bands so I was like “right, I need a band.” recruiting a few people she met at uni and her sister, she found the right people but was still sure that she needed to stay true to her identity “I loved it. I think I always knew I didn’t want to be in a ‘band’ band, I always wanted it to be my thing. Because I’m a control freak. Scorpio. I’m so scared of being misunderstood that I don’t want anything I have to say to be monitored or altered in any way.”
Something that was obvious from speaking to Phoebe is how important being in control of her artistry is. “I think I really do want to be able to represent myself. And for that to be as clear as possible.” Although she is so sure of herself, she is also very aware that she is someone who is always growing and the pressures that working with others can add to that - “I think I find it quite hard to take other people’s ideas of who I am as an artist into account. If I know that my self perception is always changing. I don’t want those things clinging to me. I just feel that I have to be in control so things can change as I change.” Being an independent artist is a role that seems made for Phoebe. Although, she enjoyed and valued her time being signed to an indie label she was sure that it was time to do it herself “I think I’ve just got to a point where I know who I am now and I don’t necessarily need the help of other people to help me find that.” For many artists, deciding to release music independently with no label backing would be a terrifying prospect. But Phoebe was honest when I asked what advice she would give to artists who wanted to go down that route, “it’s so tough because money-wise it’s hell. It’s the most difficult thing ever to finance and I’ve been lucky in the deals I’ve had. I would say apply for as many grants as you possibly can. But if you are going to sign for a label you really have to know who you are, what you want to do and what you want to put out.”
With a lot of pride and self awareness in herself and her music, I wondered which song of hers she was the proudest, regardless of popularity or success “maybe ‘Lucky Me’ - the title track of my album. I think that one has a softness to it, as well as obviously a heaviness. It’s quite vulnerable in a kind of ‘in your face’ way. I feel like it’s very me, and I had all the ideas for it before I even got in the studio.” Following on from that I was intrigued by how she approaches time in the studio, particularly when she values being in control. “It really depends, it’s really changed now. I used to hate collaborations because I wasn’t really boundaried and I didnt know when to say no to something I didn’t like. I’d be quite precious and take something that’s pretty much already fully formed so that there were less rooms for alterations. But now I know what I like and what I don’t like and know what I want to put across, so it’s a lot more collaborative now.”
As I asked Phoebe about her proudest moments, which was a headline show she played to her home crowd in Manchester, explaining “the whole room was sold out. It was a room that I went to a lot for club nights and stuff and it felt so weird to have my family, all my friends and people I didn’t know filling out the room and knowing all the words. That was crazy.” Another proud moment for her was “having a song on Killing Eve. [It] was the coolest thing ever, no matter what that always stands out. The show has amazing queer representation and because of that the show was so special for me. I don’t think I’ll ever recover from it.” At this point, understandably, there was a lot of fangirling over Jodie Comer and Sandra Oh as Phoebe said it was something she’d never move on from. I was intrigued as to what other shows she’d like to hear herself in. “Oh my god, I’ve actually been thinking about this,” it was as if I read her mind. Excitedly, she had the answer straight away. “Love Island. I’ve been thinking about that a lot recently because me and my sister have been obsessed with it. I actually had to stop watching it for a while because I was getting too invested and couldn’t sleep thinking about ‘what are they doing right now?’ But now that I’m more normal I reallyyy want a song in it!” Moving on from the small screen, she already knows that she wants her music to make it into the movies, reflecting on how the songs she writes tell a story, and how that storytelling belongs within the world of film. “I have a song that I’ve been sitting on for a year or so which I recorded the day after Lucky Me was released and I have such a good feeling that it will work really well in a film. So I’m waiting for that to be in a big indie film.” Circling back to musicals, Phoebe highlighted her love of songs within films - “the way songs can bring scenes to life and in so many of my favourite films the sound track is immaculate. I would just love to be in a really meaningful moment in a film.”
With the weather reminding us that summer months were fast approaching, I asked Phoebe if there are any festivals she’s yet to play “I mean, Glastonbury, obviously. I still haven’t done Glasto. I need to do Glasto. Primavera. I, like, need to play it, it’s my favourite festival - I just love Barcelona and it’s just so much fun.” From the muddy fields of Glasto to the sandy beaches of Spain, the people you go with tend to make the experience - so who would Phoebe Green share a tent with? “Okay Muna, number one. Tyler the Creator. James Blake. Who else is fun? Little Simz! I can’t choose who else, who would be funny? I need to look at my phone - this is very very important. Oh Jonas Brothers - nostalgic, absolute treat.” Phoebe’s love of the Jonas Brothers was something I wasn’t expecting but at the same time, made so much sense. “I’m actually going to see the Jonas Brothers this year with my sister,” she said with a beam and a giggle. “We actually went a few years ago and it was the funniest thing ever - they actually did a medley and it was an absolute treat. On my birthday this year, we went out, got back at 3 or 4 and me and my sister were like let’s put on the Jonas Brothers concert movie and we just performed the entire thing until 5 am and I’ll remember that forever.” It’s little anecdotes like this that made me want to become Phoebe’s best friend.
If you are a fan of MUNA, Japanese House, Caroline Polachek, Imogen Heap, St Vincent, Chapell Roan - Phoebe Green is for you and if you were thinking of taking a dive into her repertoire, she recommends IDK: “it has everything in it that I would like. I’m going to have to give two I’m afraid, IDK or Die Die Die, which is the most depressing song I’ve ever written.” Before we wrapped up the conversation I had to ask a question that had been plaguing my mind since listening to her single I Can’t Ride A Bike. “Did you ever learn to ride a bike?” and after a long pause and a sigh she answered. “Uh, okay... No... But I have been having nightmares about having to ride a bike and not being able to. I had two in one night recently. There was one where someone was making me because it was an emergency and someone was like “Phoebe, you need to get on a bike now” and I was like “No, no I can’t” and then I tried and I couldn’t. Which was crazy.” But there was an admission that suggested where the trauma started. “I did try and learn when I was 12 but I failed my cycling proficiency, maybe I was the first person ever to fail. My whole year group went up during assembly to get their certificates and I was the only one that didn’t and there was a massive hole around me.” As something that was a core memory for us growing up, I wondered, how does one fail their cycling proficiency test? “There was a bus behind me and obviously I panicked and swerved and fell onto the pavement. I can’t deal, I can’t even think about it. I can’t drive as well, so I’m fucked.”
As we finished up at the cafe and walked through the Terrace Gardens, the spring sunshine had disappeared but that no longer mattered as Phoebe’s energy was enough to brighten what had become an overcast afternoon. During our chat I was struck by how inspiringly and unapologetically headstrong she was, with such a clear vision of what’s next on her list, Phoebe’s will be an exciting journey to follow. Will we see her taking on showtunes? Writing music for the next biggest blockbuster? Collab with Jonas Brothers? Whatever it is, it’s easy to see that the future belongs to Phoebe Green.